In this interview, art philosopher Wolfgang Zumdick tells us how poetry and connectedness are linked. We find out why a 'poetic' attitude is contagious, how to produce "social honey" and why ideas initiated by ecological pioneers such as Rudolf Steiner and Joseph Beuys are more relevant than ever.
Poetryis a broad bracket. What does poetry mean to you?
For me, poetry means more than just writing poems. A friend of mine once said: "Poetry means being in things". In other words, to be connected, with all your strength and soul.
In addition to the sensual, we also have other fields of perception. We feel something when we encounter this world. We have willpower and want to change it. We can imagine things. We can take in situations in full intensity and remember them. Of smells, moods, associations. The poetic arises from this interplay of sensual and mental perception.
Couldthis change also bring us closer to what actually defines us as human beings? Nourish us socially and sensually?
I think we have to, otherwise we will become lonely. Sometimes I have the feeling that we are fleeing from these forces that make us alive. In spring, for example, we are surrounded by an incredible energy. And we are like emperors or kings who have everything around them but can no longer appreciate anything. When we step out of connection with these forces, we become lonely.
The most revolutionary form of action today is when we connect with these creative forces that surround us everywhere. We can develop other forms of school, other forms of togetherness. Perhaps we can also take the speed out of this time in order to focus more intensively on the things that define us as human beings.
We could learn to love the earth we live on a little more again - and ourselves. That is the great opportunity that lies in all this misery.
Yourepeatedly use the term "poetic attitude". Can this attitude be cultivated?
This attitude is self-reinforcing and spreads. This is most important for children. They should experience joy in the things that surround them and in experiencing the world. It's about intensity and connection. Children need a protected space in which they can develop this love of the world. The attitude comes naturally.
Beuys repeatedly emphasized: "We need free schools." As a teacher, he himself did not interfere with his pupils' intuition. He let them become 'me' and accompanied them on their path to artistic freedom. Johannes Stüttgen, a student of Beuys, once said: "We don't really know what great pikes we are." Every personality has incredible strengths that vary, complement each other and form a network. We are dependent on each other and should not talk ourselves down.
Do you thinkpoetry is easily accessible, or rather something elitist?
Poetry was an important ferment in all cultures. People sang and danced everywhere. It is a human need. It's in people's DNA. In this respect, everyone is a poet. I believe that poetry has a lot of momentum of its own.
Poetry is a natural carrier of the human. Our existence is also a rhythmic existence. Of course, this is lost in our current, mechanized world.
Youcounteract this "loss", for example, by finding out how to produce "social honey" in an exhibition with the artist Shelly Sachs. Can you share this "beekeeping knowledge" with us?
With honey, bees produce a substance that they live on and that gets them through the winter, one of the most precious substances. Shelley Sachs says: "We can also produce this social honey, but it's not that easy. We can hurt people, not notice them. We can do socially negative things to ourselves, to children and to others."
In the "Frametalks" process, people were invited to talk through a wooden frame about one of the five 'realities' (love, nature, future, freedom, people). It was about an actual exchange that leads into the substance of these realities. It was about imaginative thinking, but also about active listening, free of prejudices. Shelley Sachs called these encounters "creating social honey".
The frame was also set up at various locations (in Kassel), making a certain section of reality visible. A section of the world that is part of the whole, which awakens people internally and brings them to life. It has led to the most amazing results when people simply share their perception.
InAmerica, the young poet Amanda Gorman recently shared her perception of reality at the inauguration of the new US president. How do you interpret the success of her poem "the hill we climb"?
There is a parallel: Amanda Gorman is the poetic version of Greta Thunberg. I think these are two women who have realized exactly that - that things can't go on like this. And they have this deep intuition and wisdom to say: people, wake up. And both of them have succeeded in shaking people out of the feeling of "Things aren't going well, but they're still going on", which awakens the feeling: if not now, then when.
There are billions of voices of people who could have done the same. But the two of them have a very specific charisma and a very specific cleverness that created this. These are great phenomena. You realize how paradigms can change through very small movements of the mind.
You have a new book coming out soon. On what subject?
It is about the German action artist Joseph Beuys, the poetic dimension and the idea of transformation. It is about what forces are needed today to get back on their feet, to give transformation a force from an artistic point of view that cannot be found in political discourse, for example.
Beuys would have been 100 years old this year. He was one of the first to say that we are at a point where we can no longer go on like this. "C'est la fin de la fin de latin" (We are at the end of the end of Latin).
He wanted to stir things up, shake things up with the craziest actions, e.g. by explaining art to a dead rabbit, etc., and all this in order to kiss a romantic spirit awake again. In this respect, he was a great romantic and poet. He saw every person as an artist and creator of social and ecological contexts.
Whatfascinates you about Rudolf Steiner, the second visionary mastermind with whom you are intensively involved?
Rudolf Steiner is a very decisive force. He did not want to be satisfied with 'only' explaining everything with the tools of the intellect. He asked himself questions: "What is imagination? What is inspiration? What is thinking, feeling and willing?" He described what happens on the emotional level, the volitional level, the mental level, etc. Once you have understood his impulse, you can see that he was on the right track. He explained a lot of things well, which makes the world - and yourself - more transparent.
His Waldorf education is based on the idea that children are thrown into a sensory world and that pure sensuality is the starting point. In order not to overtax them, very specific stages of development must be taken into account, with the mind only really coming into play after puberty. He was a good observer and observed - during his work as a home teacher - what children of different ages needed. Steiner never fell out of touch. He felt something and recognized that it should be brought to the surface and communicated.
DoesRudolf Steiner's work need tobe translated into the everyday reality of the 21st century?
When I read Steiner's writings for the first time, I thought: what kind of language is this? Fortunately, Beuys was there, who was so beautifully modern. Dieter Koepplin put it like this: Beuys updates Steiner. Presumably there are also people at Alanus University - an anthroposophical, state-recognized university in Germany - who can translate Steiner's somewhat baroque spirit. My daughter, for example, studied "Rethinking Business" there, a course that combines art, philosophy and business.
At the end of the day, however, Steiner's work is sometimes just tough stuff. In some places, I reach a point where it becomes incomprehensible to me. But that's not so bad. I feel the same way about Einstein. But I can see that there is a clever thought, a clever insight or a clever experience behind what I can understand.
Rudolf Steiner's extensive work has been compiled in a complete edition, which is also available online.
Joseph Beuys would have been 100 years old this year. Wolfgang Zumdick's texts and books invite us to delve even deeper into the world of Beuys' (and Steiner's) work and influence. Rüdiger Sünner summarizes Beuys' artistic life in his documentary "Zeige Deine Wunde".
About Wolfgang Zumdick
Dr. Wolfgang Zumdick is an art philosopher, curator and author. He is currently helping to set up the Beuys Café in Melbourne. He is guest curator of the exhibition "Intuition" on Beuys' early work, which was on display at the Museum des Kurhauses Kleve from June 19, 2021.
His most recent book was written in collaboration with Volker Harlan: "Mit Beuys Evolution denken". Current lectures can also be found online ("Death keeps me awake" Skulpturenpark Waldfrieden, "I hereby resign from art - Joseph Beuys" Goethe-Institut Warsaw)
